This past Tuesday, things got a little heated between OG Maco and me after he tweeted the following:
I had interpreted this tweet as suggesting that a woman's obligated to do sexy-whatever after one to three dates, so I responded with a piece about how no woman is obligated sexually, or even emotionally,to any man -- no matter what the dude gets you, says to you, etc. etc.
Via Twitter, Maco called on us to get in touch with him; yesterday, we had the chance to speak directly. Below is our conversation, which touches on Maco's actual intentions, the reality of meninism and the pitfalls of living in the age of Twitter speculation.
So you just wanted to explain what's up?
Well yeah. I think you really misconstrued everything I said, and the fact of the matter is that you actually said the exact inverse of what I meant, because my entire monologue was not based around the idea of sex. It was actually seated on equality.
In today's society, with the speed of social media, with the willingness of people to say and then disperse what you would call knowledge... it's not really knowledge, just brainstorming really. A lot of things get lost in translation and it carries from conversation into action. A prime example being the relationship between men and women -- you have a society where people can base words or the amount of input they put into a person off of Instagram, like, off of the kind of shoes they wear or things like that. And my message was, if it weren't about any of those things or about fucking or any of that, make sure that there's at least some form of mutual worth, i.e. an attraction based off intelligence. An attraction based on some kind of common ground such as art or even something that's negative, if that's something you want to get into. But, above all, respect yourself so that you don't end up in a microwave relationship. And that's why, after said tweets, I included that broke men are equal to broke women; there is no greater than or less than.
Broke Men = Broke Women
There is no > or <
Human beings should have ambition.-- OG Maco (@OGMaco) June 23, 2015
And so, when I read your article and all of these things were turned around into making me some misogynistic bastard, I was extremely upset because that isn't even how I live my life. I personally don't care if I go on 85 dates with a woman, I don't even want to have sex with you. That's just my standard. I've taken many girls out on dates just 'cause I'm bored. I might just literally be having a boring day, like, "Hey, who wants to go do something? Let's go do that." But I'm not trying to gain anything from someone that I don't even know. So you should always attempt to know and appreciate things about people before you even engage with them. And I tailored it, at certain points, to men because men have this thing where peer pressure happens. Where [their friends] say, "Oh yeah man, you know, she just using you." What are you gonna do? Or say, like, you are trying to get some pussy out of her, but for what? You didn't accomplish anything. You can get pussy from her or 30 other women. Or she can go get penis from you or 30 other guys, that's completely irrelevant to the fact of, "Does this person do anything in your life, do they create any worth, do they create any happiness, any ambition or make you want to further your goals?"
In the American society we live in -- and even at a world stage -- that's never spoken about. If you listen to songs like [TLC's "No Scrubs"] -- "I don't want no scrub / A scrub is a guy who can't get no love from me / Hanging out the passenger side of his best friend's ride / Trying to holler at me." Now what the fuck does that sound like? That sounds really shitty. But when a man says, "Hey, I need you to have something," everyone turns on him, saying, "Oh you're a fucking P!" It's crazy, it makes no sense; there should be equality. Now if we're all going to agree that we don't want anybody who doesn't have shit, then it should be cool for everybody to want someone [as long as] they have [their own] shit. And we're going to all agree to look for different things in people.
I hear everything you're saying, but like you said, the fact of the matter is that social media, especially Twitter, is such a difficult medium to properly convey your thoughts. Other people, besides myself, appeared to get the same initial impression from your tweets -- whether that was your intention or not. Did you ever think about how people may interpret it?
I would rethink it for someone who actually listens to my music. Because anyone who listens to my music knows that I don't even disrespect or really impart those kinds of messages in my music about women. But if all you know is "U Guessed It," then I don't really care. But the simple fact is that all my music has the message: "Do whatever it takes to further your goals. Do whatever it takes to reach a greater ambition." And yet what got picked up was the bullshit and not the music.
In today's media, once the media has decided, "This is what we're going to stick to this person about..." The media just wants to keep picking up on everything else [but the music]. It's those things that are picked up, and I get all of these funny one-liners about "U Guessed It" that does nothing but show me the complete lack of research done in today's media. Though that's also due to how fast-paced it is. It takes no time.
Most people who don't really give a fuck about me -- [who don't] listen to my music -- assume I'm an idiot. And therefore, I don't really care to argue that I'm not. I'll just let you believe what you want to believe, because I have a whole drove of fans who know I'm one of the most successful rappers in the game. Period.
So no, I don't really care if it gets misconstrued, because my career as a whole is misconstrued. People think I am waiting to make another "U Guessed It" or that I'm waiting to "find myself." I'm working on a Grammy.
Because I think it's funny. I think the meninism movement... that Twitter is amazingly funny, but I also put out an entire Fader video [about] meninism being fake as shit.
It's really fake, I agree 100%. It's not a real concept, yet a lot of people, especially on Twitter, make it a legitimate issue for women online. [Note: The Men's Rights Movement often takes on the form of rape, death threats and harassment]
Let's assume meninism was a real thing -- an actual movement and we had leaders in this movement. Why is it that it's OK to be offended by that movement? And yet anything [negative] said about feminism is treated as an attack on American freedoms? But [negative] things about meninism are cool because everyone knows that anyone who is a meninist is just a bastard. Why is that? What makes that right?
There is so much ingrained sexism is in our society, which is why feminism is necessary, whereas men have been the dominant force for so long.
OK now, add to that fact that you're speaking to a black man. So whatever rights you have, I still have less. So please, I'm just curious, speaking to a black man, if I was a meninist and it was real, why would you think a negative post about said movement would be necessary to warn other females to stay away from such a person -- who has been oppressed?
I think you're comparing two different things.
Mmm, not really. Simple fact is, if you look at a society based on white privilege -- which is the actual one we live in -- then yeah right, those are two different things. But the key factor of feminism is oppression, equality and understanding. Right?
Alright, the same thing can be said about meninism. If you look at sentencing and laws, if you look at... Prime example: if you have a man and woman in the exact same car, or even in a domestic dispute in which a woman beats the shit out of a man, everyone laughs at the man -- "Woo, you got your ass beat." But if you beat a woman, everyone's like, "Holy shit, you're a scumbag." Right? If a man is to be raped, everyone like, "Damn bruh, you a real bitch." But if a woman was to be raped, everyone understands her pain, and this is undeniable. My question is: why is this acceptable?
But people do care about men getting raped. It's a big movement to have the [men who have been raped] speak up, and help them continue speaking up. But because our society is so toxic in its standards of masculinity, men are afraid to speak up, because they will be called a "bitch."
So my question to you, because I knew you'd say that, is if our masculinity is toxic, then shouldn't there be a movement required to let men know, "Hey, you have to stand up for yourselves in these aspects of life." And so what would you call that?
But the eschewing of standards of masculinity is very different from reasserting the dominance of the male in society over the female.
Well I mean, that's not what I did. So in that case, I do agree with you. I agree with you completely. There should never be a conversation or movement based on the dominance of males over females, because in actuality that dominance is a façade. If you look at the amount of college graduates in today's world, women far outnumber men. If you look at successful ventures women far outnumber men. So I mean, I think maybe in a culture that evokes the past, that was a larger issue. I mean yes, there are still pockets of resistance where people and men are pigs, are sexist. But if someone was to say to these men, "Respect yourselves more. Don't allow yourselves to be used in a fashion. Pay and be a respectful man. Be, you know, chivalrous. Pay for the first date. But after that, this woman needs to pay for something. She needs to either come pick you up, get gas money or she needs to have a crib. She needs to have something."
I'm from Atlanta, where four girls will live in the exact same apartment and come to the club with $20 -- all of them [total]. Dudes will do the same thing. So the VIP bands are $20 and you gotta get one person the band and everybody will take the band off and pass it back, so y'all can get in. None of you should be out, male or female. You all should have stayed at home. Respect yourself enough to see the difference between being fake-cool and actually ambitious. Do you agree with that?
I 100% agree with that, but perception is everything. You're a very popular rapper, and it's easy for people to nitpick at things, like I did. I am sorry that I misconstrued what you were saying, but I think clarity is key in such a murky medium.
Thank you. I just want for you to understand that things are special in today's world because it progresses so rapidly. You have to be aware of filth, because so many people are carbon copies of the next person and the music that most people are putting out is so demeaning to both sexes that you can't base your interactions off of it. You cannot base your interactions off the rules of old either, because things are not the same. So I will hope in the future that you will take your time to help me push that message, to help the kids realize that there is more to life than Instagram likes and pussy and dick and club rap songs. There are actual good intentions from some rappers, that there are actually good women and men out here who want to grow to teach you. Not every relationship is going to be perfect, but you should never have a relationship where you learn nothing from except for how good the sex was.
Yeah definitely. Although I did actually have one more question. So the sort of stuff you were tweeting at us yesterday, in the aftermath of everything, was disturbing, frankly. Is there anything you'd like to say about that?
I intended to be rude. I felt as though I was attacked for absolutely no reason. And the fact that I was attacked [for something other than my music] made it even worse -- so I did intend to be rude. So for that, I will apologize, especially since you apologized. But I had every intention of being rude and disturbing and whatever else.
But shove it up my vagina --
Well I'm telling you to shove it up your vagina. I'm not going to shove anything up your vagina, because that was my point. I never said anything in any of the tweets about me even wanting vagina, or even speaking of vagina the entire time. So for it to be said, oh you know, a $200 continental breakfast is going to get you some pussy when that $200 continental breakfast I ate by myself... it was absurd. So I intended to be just as absurd as that statement was. So any connotation of rape or assault or anything like that was [another instance of me being] misconstrued. What I did intend, instead of saying "shove it up your ass," was "shove it up your vagina." That I did not ask for after one or three dates. I said it exactly like that; I never asked for it, I never wanted it, I never told the kids they need to get some pussy at one or three dates. I told them they need to show some worth. And if it's to the point where the word "worth" is connotated as sex or pussy, then the message I'm trying to convey is even more imperative.